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 Post subject: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 2:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
Despite feeling sorry for Ellis Short, his current response to the situation we are in, is not good. It isn't fair to fans staff, directors or even Ellis himself. Nor is it going to get him out of the hole he finds himself in.

Does he have plan? I don't believe that a man of his stature has just gone off in a terminal sulk, so what is going to happen.

Ellis, would you please enlighten us. What hope do we have?

Anyway, this was prompted by the fact that 3 different journals all focussed on the man himself and published articles this week. Here they are:-

Roker Report

https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2018/2/5/16973256/ithics-fanzine-why-doesnt-ellis-short-just-sell-sunderland-and-rid-himself-of-the-problem

Sunderland Advert Fest

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/latest-defeat-compounds-fears-ellis-short-s-negligence-will-be-too-great-for-chris-coleman-to-overcome-1-9000514

Chronicle Live
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sunderland-ellis-short-locked-death-14247446


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:03 pm
Posts: 164
I think that Chronicle post sums it up nicely. He can't sell while the club is £110m in debt to him and losing £30m a season. Means he is essentially making as many cuts as possible to make it break even as well as using the TV parachute payments to reduce the debt (it was £150m in the summer).

I suppose his thinking is that once the club is breaking even, only £50/60m in debt (and all to him), he will find a buyer who will pay him his debts and then take the club forward, but until then...


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:02 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
Conaboy wrote:
I think that Chronicle post sums it up nicely. He can't sell while the club is £110m in debt to him and losing £30m a season. Means he is essentially making as many cuts as possible to make it break even as well as using the TV parachute payments to reduce the debt (it was £150m in the summer).

I suppose his thinking is that once the club is breaking even, only £50/60m in debt (and all to him), he will find a buyer who will pay him his debts and then take the club forward, but until then...


Yes, I think you may be right, but who would pay £50/60 million for a 1st division club, with an oversized stadium and about 17,000 hardy fans?


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:04 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/kevin-phillips-fears-for-sunderland-s-future-unless-ellis-short-leaves-1-9003168

Super Kev, worried.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:45 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:03 pm
Posts: 164
Hakuna Matata wrote:
Conaboy wrote:
I think that Chronicle post sums it up nicely. He can't sell while the club is £110m in debt to him and losing £30m a season. Means he is essentially making as many cuts as possible to make it break even as well as using the TV parachute payments to reduce the debt (it was £150m in the summer).

I suppose his thinking is that once the club is breaking even, only £50/60m in debt (and all to him), he will find a buyer who will pay him his debts and then take the club forward, but until then...


Yes, I think you may be right, but who would pay £50/60 million for a 1st division club, with an oversized stadium and about 17,000 hardy fans?


If you consider that Newcastle are said to be worth £250M with about 5,000 extra seats and a division higher, then that would be the selling point to investors. If he can demonstrate that he has stabilised the club (financially) then there will be people who will be willing to take the punt at £50m with the vision that investing £20/30/40m would get you into the premier league and once their a couple of years, you can sell for 3x times what you have invested.

Recent success stories are;

Leicester, bought when championship for £40m.
Bournemouth, bought when in League one for £1m.
Watford, bought when championship for undisclosed amount
Southampton, bought when in league one for a nominal amount (they were in administration). Recently sold 80% for £210m.

Then you have the less successfull

Cardiff, bought when in Championship and have had a season in the premier league and are close to getting there again
Leeds, bought for £22m and are still in the championship.
Nottingham Forrest, bought for a nominal fee, also still in the championship
Sheff Utd, bought when in league one for £1 although they have since had a promotion and are challenging to reach the Premier league.
Sheff Wed, bought for £37.5m, still in the championship

Then finally, the recent buys...

Wolves, £45m and currently top of the league
Barnsley, undisclosed amount albeit only 2 months ago.
Bristol Rovers, undisclosed amount, still in league one
Portsmouth, £5.7m, only in the summer but looking for promotion out of League one.

Investors look at these and see the golden riches of the premier league and think they can do it. I suspect Short was one...


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
Again Conaboy, I think you are right, but for Ellis, who wants. say £50,000,000, Division 1 looks a no go area. From your post,

Quote:
Leicester, bought when championship for £40m.
Bournemouth, bought when in League one for £1m.
Watford, bought when championship for undisclosed amount
Southampton, bought when in league one for a nominal amount (they were in administration). Recently sold 80% for £210m.

Then you have the less successfull

Cardiff, bought when in Championship and have had a season in the premier league and are close to getting there again
Leeds, bought for £22m and are still in the championship.
Nottingham Forrest, bought for a nominal fee, also still in the championship
Sheff Utd, bought when in league one for £1 although they have since had a promotion and are challenging to reach the Premier league.
Sheff Wed, bought for £37.5m, still in the championship


Mind you, if Ellis could drive his personal losses down to around £50,000,000 perhaps he will think that he has got off lightly and accept £1 for a 1st division SAFC.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:56 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
More news from the financial maze and it isn't good.

https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2018/2/7/16978658/untangling-sunderlands-loan-deals-just-how-much-is-coming-in-for-lens-borini-khazri-papy

And hidden amongst the adverts is some stuff from the Echo

https://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/sunderland-afc-news-coleman-s-defiant-message-khazri-and-djilobodji-wage-contributions-revealed-bristol-city-ticket-update-1-9005754


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
At last:- A solution.

https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2018/2/7/16984280/fan-letters-why-doesnt-someone-suggest-that-ellis-short-sells-sunderland-to-amanda-staveley


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:03 pm
Posts: 164
True, I hadn't looked at it like that. Looks like he will do well to get the £40-45m mark and even then that was for reasonably stable (on and off the pitch) clubs. He will probably be looking for closer to £25m this summer.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:50 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
https://rokerreport.sbnation.com/2018/2/9/16907656/this-is-fine-analysis-points-towards-one-man-who-is-responsible-for-sunderlands-downfall

Another wolf joins the pack.

Working out who is to blame.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:49 am
Posts: 4171
Location: Cardiff, Wales But still a Sanddancer.
We really are at our lowest point, ever, at the moment. Even in 1987 we were still in with a chance of survival until the end. We went into a play off with Gillingham before going into the third tier for the first time ever. We finished that season 3rd bottom 4 points ahead of the 2nd bottom club and only 2 behind the 4th bottom and 3 points behind about five others on 51. Only 3 points behind a semi respectable position albeit in the second tier. As things stand now we look like sliding back there with just a whimper. That time we were lucky to be able to add players like Gabby, Kay and McPhail to romp back up when they were added to players like Gates, Gray and Bennett. As things stand I can't see us hanginging on to any players of the like that went down from old D2 and stayed with us in old D3 never mind finding players like those that came in to add to them. If we go down I think, in the words of our great friend Les Mis "We are doomed" this time, doomed to become the next Pompey, a once great team down amongst the dead men. If I was ES I would be wanting to sell right now to anybody who is interested for whatever I could get. I am not rich, I can't even afford to invest in a pension plan but what Ellis has been owed by the club is probably equivalent to what I can find down the back of my settee and chairs. He said he would not sell to the Germans who bid for the club in the summer as it was not good for SAFC, what was he worried about, that it might leave us staring down at a relegation to league one, funnily enough that is where we are now.

As for the Staveley idea I think I suggested it somewhat tongue in cheek a while back. Give it serious consideration though. If her consortium is willing to buy NUFC for 250-300 Million but is balking as they may be relegated then why not buy a "Garage find" for 50-100 million at SAFC. Like a garage find sports car you buy it cheap, spend time and money repairing it and then sell at a big profit or keep it for years and get the pleasure of seeing other people admire your fantastic vehicle when you take it out at the weekend and the occasional mid week run out. My advice to Amanda is buy the garage find cheap and get the pleasure of running it for years, please Amanda, buy our club. We get the double bubble of getting out of our sick bed and walking again as well as at the same time pissing off those black n whites up the road, and you get the pleasure of peeing off Ashley for stalling on you.


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 Post subject: Re: Ellis - the wolves are circling your tent.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:18 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 10545
I like your comparison - "Garage Find" - it's about spot on, Tufts.


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